Tugboat Forum

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2/27/00

Scott

Just made my first visit to your site. It was a very nostalgic visit and I must congratulate you on a fine job!! It was like walking through a kaleidoscope of many old friends, triggering a full range of emotions.

Was very glad to see Rescue on the revived list. I looked at five of Crowley's 65 footers first at Pacific Dry-dock in Oakland and then at San Francisco China Basin in 1996, thinking about possibilities of buying them. They were Rescue, Alert, Defiance, Fearless, and Vigilant. All were powered with Enterprise 600 horsepower engines and all except Vigilant (which was a beautiful restoration) were in very rough condition due to stripping, cannibalization, and storage deterioration. So now to see Rescue up and going again (she was the best of the first four), really did my heart thump! In the web picture another of the YTL's is behind Rescue .... do you know which boat it is? I finally decided to acquire one of Crowley's 65 footers here in Seattle as the logistics was much easier for me and the boat was in much better shape. That was the Oil King (which along with the Oil Pilot) were ex-San Francisco Bay boats. They worked the Valdez Oil Spill and then came back to a long lay-up in Seattle before I acquired the Oil King. I am slowly making headway at getting her fixed up for pleasure purposes.

The picture of the Trojan also was pure happiness as I was also aboard her in the Crowley lay-up fleet. A really nice boat! (But who could dislike an 8 cylinder Enterprise)? On the page with the pictures of the Kokua and Pacific Explorer, I believe that you have a caption error, as these are not the same boat. Kokua is ex-TP 229 U.S.A. whereas Pacific Explorer is ex-TP 111 U.S.A.. Kokua was her in the Puget Sound area when I last saw her in May, 1999, at the Seattle Tug Boat Race. She moors (or did then) up the Snohomish River at Everett. Pacific Explorer was converted to a Company yacht by Brix Maritime before they offered her for sale. I last saw her, in full party trim, at Astoria, Oregon, perhaps five years ago and still in Brix colors. Brix Maritime has subsequently been acquired by Foss Maritime. The Pacific Explorer was operated for many years by Washington Tug and Barge in Seattle as the Tartar and prior to being named the Pacific Explorer she also carried the name Capt. Bill (or William?) Clark. Washington Tug and Barge was subsequently acquired by Brix Maritime. The TP's were and are tugs of exquisite beauty!!

I was also delighted to find the Chief photos. This is a truly delightful topside wheelhouse wood tug of yesteryear. I have never met Glenn Simmons but did have the pleasure of meeting his Dad, Bob, on several occasions. Captain Bob Simmons was one of that gutsy breed of deep water towboaters who were independents long after the big companies had just about stomped the little guys out. I can remember Simmons Tug owning the wood tugs Omar and Chief and the steel tug Beaver. It seems to me that a son of Bob's was skippering the Beaver in a particularly memorable race in Seattle on the old 180 degree turn course. The Beaver won of course. Was that by any chance Glenn skippering?? I haven't seen Bob now for some years ... is he still with us? I saw that Omar went to the bottom at the log bouy in Shilshoal Bay a couple of years ago and I don't think she was raised but I may be wrong. The Chief, by the way, was the old Betsy L. who Bob acquired from Knappton (Brix) at Astoria and I think he also brought the Omar up from Astoria.

I have seen the F. L. Fulton here in Puget Sound, the last time several years ago at Port Ludlow. The Arthur Foss is a fixture at all important tugboat gatherings and moors at the south end of Lake Union in Seattle.

Keep up the good work and news ..... you can't get rid of me now!! Best regards!

xxxxxxx

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Edward

Thanks for the e-mail. A little update on the Crowley YTLs, the Alert, Defiance and the Fearless are on the mudflats down at Hunters Point in San Francisco all three ,I am truly sorry to say are tidal. the Vigilant went down off the coast about 2 years ago. the tug behind the Rescue is the Trojan in her new color scheme. The engine photo on the Rescue page is one I took on the Oil Pilot back in '84. I also have a picture of the Oil King that I took at Crowley Environmental in Richmond back in '84. I will dig that out and post it.

I did get a little confused on the TPs I will try and get a photo of the Tartar and post it. I also have Lots of TP photos such as the Island Daring, Island Champion, Breeze and others that I will post in the future. (Great Boats!!)

Bob Simmons is Alive and Kicking in Seattle or there about's.I think the Chief was originally the

Louie II. it also had a YT designation when it went into the Navy in W.W.II. I believe that Glenn was operating the Beaver during the race you mentioned. I t had a Fairbanks 37 in it at the time ( it has been repowered with a Cat 398). Glen says that the engineer during the race yanked on the the injector rack to open it up all the way, and when he did that a bunch of pieces fell out onto the floor causing the engine to run away (and win the race).

Cheers

Scott

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2/11/2000

Hi Scott,
I was wondering if you know anything about the tugboat "Ant" that used to be
in Sausalito. I'm looking for any history of the boat that I can get my
hands on. I'm planning on talking to the guys at Richardson bay boat works
(Ross and Harold), but I was wondering if you knew anything. Thanks--xxx
xxxx
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xxxx
The Ant worked for for Associated Oil, all their tugs had similar names such
as Associate, Associated etc. Harold is a great bay tug historian, he worked for Crowely (Red Stack) for 45 years.
And since the Wanderbird was docked next to the Ant during its restoration
heyday. I am sure he would be Glad to talk to you about it.

Cheers

Scott
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Scott,
Thanks for your reply Yes- I just bought Ant last week and I'm trying to
figure out exactly how to go about bringing her back to life. The boat needs
quite a bit of work and I'm in the "triage" stage now-(lots of rot). It
needs an engine and a rudder too. The original engine is in the Alert, so
I'm hoping Harold will have some good advice on this. It has some fire gear
as well, and I'm hoping he may have seen this while it was still installed
in the Ant. I spoke to Ross briefly on the phone a few days back, but I
have yet to actually talk to Harold.
I'm a little green at all this, bit I'm jumping in with both feet. I've
been obsessed with tugs over the past few years (and wooden boats in
general), and when I saw Ant it was all over for me. More than one person
has advised that it could be a loosing proposition, but I'm going to find a
way to make it work. Time will tell.- I didn't come outright and say I had
bought Ant, cause frankly, I'm still fishing for experienced people's
opinion of the boat. It is pretty apparent that, while Ant was loved, she
didn't get the all maintenance she needed over the past few years. I'll see
what I can do.
Anyway, your web site is great, so I thought I'd see what you thought. Do
you know anything about Bay Yachts in Point Richmond.? A haul out would be
really easy to do there, and they are probably cheaper than Richardson Bay
Boat works. However, I would completely trust the guys in Sausalito.
Sounds like the guys in Richmond are really good too. Do you know anything
about them? I know that Ant needs some work around the garboards, and
probably some deadwood repair. Hopefully the rest of keel is in good shape.
(I have no idea when the bolts were last checked, but it sounds like the
keel could be pulling down a little. My goal is to get everything under the
water sound at first, and get the engine, shaft, and prop installed. Then I
can move her about and work on everything above the waterline myself,
attacking the worst things first. I'd appreciate any advice you might have.
xxxxxx

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Hi Scott,

I'm Art from up Vancouver B.C. way. I was surfing and came
accross your site. It's nice to see I'm not the only nut to spend all his
money on tug boats!

We've been refurbishing the Glendevon for 7 years now. She's an eighty
foot , x- Canadian Navy wooden tug. Being a member of the International
Retired Tugboat Assoc. I sure found your site interesting. I'm
forwarding a few pictures of some of our members tugs to you.

We had the boat away from the dock for the first time last summer when we
went to Gibsons,B.C. for the I.R.T.A. summer meet there. It was a great
success with over 5,000 people attending. The summer meet for this 2000
summer will be somewhere on the West Coast of Washington but I don't know
exactly where as yet. If you're interested in any information or just want
to swap horror stories send me an e-mail .

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11/9/99

Scott, how are you these days? The gray weather has finally set in up here.

Here's an update for you:
The big engine was lifted out of the boat last Thursday. It took about four days to get the stack and fidley top removed as well as a 25'x10' hole cut in the boat deck and main deck. There was also quite a bit of work involved in getting the fidley walls, engine mounting bolts and shaft just ahead of the thrust bearing cut. The Foss 300 steam crane did the lifting. The Fairbanks-Morse ended up weighing in at 50 tons with an additional 8 tons necessary to break it free. We have some pictures that I will forward to you as soon as I get them scanned. We were very lucky to find a buyer for the engine while it was still in the boat. Apparently he is going to part it out. The last couple days have been spent mining the engine room. The boiler, electrical panel, motors, gen. ends, coolers, foundations will all be out by today. The next steps are to get the new deck plates installed and then start working on getting the new shafting & engines installed.

LT 2087 has been sold back to the fellow that I purchased LT 2202 from so it is now available on the market again.

I have managed to get a lines & offsets drawing from a local marine architect so I should now be able to get my tonnage finished up. However, I could still use some of those other drawings that we talked about before. Be sure to let me reimburse you for your time & expense.

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Thanks for the update. Have you thought about keeping the boiler piping intact to use for radiant heat later ? its a bit of a pain to have to run the generator at the dock for electric heat.Modern diesel fired boilers (hot water or steam type) are very cheap and compact much smaller than that huge Way Wolf boiler another thought is don't throw away the centrifuge The De Laval model 45 Unimatic is a wonder I have 2 of them one for lube oil and one for fuel oil. One I just converted to a/c by changing to a 56 c frame 1/2 horse motor from Grainger.I use that one for fuel oil.

I have not reproduced the tug plans yet.sorry about that. I have been busy with the boat and my real job. We went to the San Francisco tug races on The Sea Lark We raced a brand new 6 million dollar Tractor tug and lost by 3 boat lengths.

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10/1/99

Scott

Thanks for you quick response to my question. It seems like one question just leads to another. Can you give me any details on the Sea Viking? Like where she is berthed, what the owner is asking or who to contact.

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I will try to get you the information on the Sea Viking. Yesterday I found out about a 65' Navy YTL (the Rescue) with a 600 hp Enterprise in running condition. It belongs to Glenn Simmons and is currently docked in Sacramento. He is asking $ 65,000. It would make a great Starter Boat. Let me know if your interested.

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9/29/99

I have enjoyed visiting your website and reading the articles and forum pieces.

I have aspirations of getting a tug myself someday and was wondering how you find dock space for such a relatively large vessel in either your home port or in places that you visit. If it isn't too much

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A very good question, Your best bet would be to contact the marina owners in your area and make your best deal. If you are loacated in Napa You might try the Napa Marina there on the Napa river. Or try Vallejo. If you are looking at a large tug such as the Sea Viking ( a navy ytm availible in the Bay Area) try to avoid the per foot cost and make a flat fee offer for the slip. During WWII several Large Salvage Tugs were built in Napa. (ARS type).

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9/29/99

I have enjoyed visiting your website and reading the articles and forum pieces.

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9/9/99

Stumbled on your great site by accident through a link with Latitude 38 and could not believe my eyes! I was an army snipe aboard LT 1975 in the port of Sattahip,Thailand in 1969-71. There were four LTs there, the 1975, the 1976, the 2082 and the 2083. If I dig through that big box in my closet I'm sure I could find some pics. We were engaged in harbor work and barge towing to Bangkok. Reading of your trials and tribulations brought the memories flooding back. If you like, I'll see what I can find and scan some and send them along to you. On the same thought, have you ever seen that ex-army tug in San Pedro, the ANGEL'S GATE? I think it's an ST but it looks exactly like the one I was on, only smaller. I understand a group of volunteers maintains it for the San Pedro Maritime Museum and even takes it out for a run every so often.

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I dont know much about this vessel. But here's a picture taken several years ago by my frend Glen Simmons.

Cheers

Scott

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8/8/99

Scot and Linda

How did you find the tug for sale from marad? I have been watching various sales events for eons it seems with no luck, then I see one for resale and wonder how the owner got ahold of it. I'm on the East Coast. Any info on getting sales info would be appreciated. I've been a tug captain since 1975 on tugs all over the world, see them tied up in reserve and layup, then they dissappear and re-appear for private use. How does that happen?

Good luck with that LT. They actually make a real good tug if you decide to tow.

George

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We found our boat through an add in Boats & Harbors. The Army is auctioning an ST on August 26 try looking at www.drms.com/ads/craft.html . I had a catalog for the drmo here they were auctioning 2 YTMs one was a wwII Bushy probably a Fairbanks model 37 with the long deck house, and a YTB late style short deckhouse with a op Fairbanks 38D 8 1/8 12 cyl. I can't find the catalog but the auction is in August and the boats are on the East coast.

Cheers

Scott

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June 27, 1999

Hello,

Came across your site while browsing tug stuff, nice job.

I notice you mention the Fulton shipyard several times in your articles. Is
there anyone or anything still around there? Does Fulton Shipyard still exist? I
had a phone number a couple of years ago but the phone company said it was no
longer in service.

I am interested because I have been the owner of the tug F.L. Fulton for the
past two years. The boat was in pretty bad condition when I got it but after a
ton of money and millions of hours we are warm and dry again.

I wonder if you knew the boat when you were in Friday Harbor ...

Take care and good luck with the boat,

Rick
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Rick
Last time I talked to Leslie Fulton was about 3 years ago. He told me that
they were winding things down in preparation to shut down. However a friend
went by the yard a few months ago and said there was a boat up on the
railway. So at this point I dont know what the status is.

I do remember seeing the F.L. Fulton in Friday Harbor in the mid '80s red
house w/black hull. I think Jerry Morris had the boat at that time. He had
the Yellow Fin as well. I think I may have some photos of the F.L. taken in
the mid seventies.

Cheers

Scott

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May 28, 1999

I ran across your website as I was trying to gather some information
regarding ex-Army LT tugs. Very nice.

I am considering purchasing one LT of a set of three that were purchased by
a fellow up here in Seattle, WA from the Army in Stockton, CA last year. I
inspected it yesterday and despite being mothballed for the last 30 years,
they are in remarkably good shape. The one that I am interested in is
powered by a Morse Fairbanks 37E16 (?) 6 cyl. & has (2) 4-71 gens. Most of
the original equipment is still aboard including the bow capstan and anchor.

The only hull concerns are a couple of 1/4" deep pits in the hull near the
propeller undoubtedly from electrolysis as the zincs have been long gone.
There is some minor steelwork that needs to be performed on the
superstructure, specifically about 8' of rub rail and bullwark need to be
replaced and the decks just outside the pilothouse doors.

The fellow is asking $60K as is which sound reasonable given that all of the
DOD surplus environmental work has been complied with (removing the PCB
wire, etc.)

Any words of advice on what I should be looking out for as I proceed with
the purchase?
________________________________________________________________

My reply:

This was my original reply to your first letter. So some of it may seem a
bit redundant in spots.

Your purchase sounds like a good deal. The LT is a classic Rossenblatt tug.
From the description of the engine it sounds like you are looking at the LT
1961 or the LT 1967. As for the Fairbanks Morse model 37 people either love
them or they hate them. My neighbor Glen worked on his dads 2 tugs out of
Seattle in the early 80's, The CHIEF had an Enterprise which ran as smooth
as silk and the BEAVER had a Fairbanks 37. Glens dad loved the Fairbanks
every time the subject of repowering came up glens dad would veto it. The
main problem with the 37 is that being a two-stroke engine of an early
design (it dates from the '20s) it suffers from big vibrations. The only
source of scavenging air is that big "tub" on the front of the engine this
thing is a kind of double acting compressor you may have to renew the seals
and it weighs several tons It was a big improvement over the Fairbanks 35.
this engine was crankcase scavenging. And you practically had to build a
bonfire under it in order to start them. Another downside is the weight of
all the parts of this engine, I thought that Cooper heads were heavy at 1200
pounds each. Fairbanks 37 heads weigh in at about 1800 pounds per head Of
coarse being heavily built The do tend to last a long time. The other big
problem with an engine that has been laid up for many years without being
bared over on a regular basis, is all of the springs that are in the
compressed position need to be replaced, as they will take a set in this
position and even though the engine may run fine for a short time theses
springs will eventually break. The Fairbanks being a two-stroke cycle engine
has the advantage of having no valve springs. But believe me there are
hundreds of other springs to worry about, such as in the fuel injection. You
need to start by getting about 50 gallons of marvel mystery oil to dose all
of the cylinders with. The rings in this engine may be frozen or at least
unseated.

The main problem I see with going to all ac is the auxiliary pumps and
compressors for the main engine. These all run on dc and are big hefty
motors and going with ac would cost a lot as new ac motors would have to be
custom fitted. The best system may be keeping the dc gensets and running
hydraulic pumps on them and hydraulic driven gensets. The electric steering
is also something to think about yours is a Sperry an excellent design.

I assume you are getting Westinghouse (wabbco) 2a2b air controls. It will
take some figuring to make this work on that wheel throttle. Usually
pilothouse control on these engines is accomplished by using a chain system.
(Don't throw away those telegraphs they may come in handy for this)

If they telling you that the boat was used in fresh water in San Diego think
about how that could be so. There is no fresh body of water accessible by
sea anywhere near there.

As I recall the boiler did not look to be in good shape. We changed ours to
a hot water boiler (gets rid of the steam traps). We got a good deal from WW
Grainger ( www.grainger .com ).

I would not worry about the pitting of the hull as this can be built up with
bead and ground down flush. Stockton River water is only slightly brackish
in the summer. The rest of the time its fresh water. These boats sat in Reo
Vista for a few years and in 1974 they went to Stockton under There own
power 2 of the six broke down, and had to be towed. At this time they were
still being maintained for "future anticipated needs".

A lot of your decisions will be on what to keep and what to throw away. And
this depends on what you intend to use the boat for. What are you going to
do about the asbestos Lagging? Probably just wrap it up real good with
lagging adhesive.

. I spent last weekend installing two watertight doors. One from the engine
room to the lazzerette and one from the lazzerette to the after peak..
You may want to rethink your schedule as it took me 4 months of working
evenings to put our cooper back together and running. All I had to due was a
valve job.

Cheers Scott

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May 22, 1999

I had a hard time getting to you via the army net. I have some questions on
the information provided in your web page on "TAIRONA over to Richmond"
article. Where did you get the data on Project SHAD I am interested in the
decon of the vessels can you please help me. You should try looking at our
web site 7th Transportation Group on the US Army Transportation Ft Eustis
Web site - it has tug photos on it.

In regards to your questions. It was an interesting road to find information
about the LT tugs that were laid up in Stockton for so many years. The rumor
mill says the sold in lots of three for $16,000.00 ea. that's less than
Scrap. I guess you don't need the spare parts anymore since your repowering
all of them with EMD for a twelve year Life extension Is it true that there
is a warehouse at the DDRW in Stockton full of spare Cooper Parts?
We have some friends that live in Stockton across the river from Rough and
Ready. Visiting them in 1994 is when I first noticed the tugs. In 1996 after
having sold my previous tug the Amador, my wife and I decided to look for
another project tug to rebuild into a Yacht of sorts. We had heard through
the rumor mill that the tugs in Stockton would be coming up for sale as
surplus. So we contacted the Rough and Ready DRMO to find out about the
Tugs. We were referred to Jim Newberry. Who kindly granted us Permission to
view any or all of the boats, Jim handed us the keys and left us alone for
several hours, the extended deckhouse on the 2080 intrigued us because it
would fit right in with our yacht conversion plans. We had no Idea what it
had been used for. Newberry stated that they had been used for Atomic
testing in the pacific. I figured this had to be an open-air test Like
Hardtack one or two. However the dates for all open-air tests did not work
out for the operational period of these boats. As open air testing ended in
1960 or so due to the contamination of the world milk supplies. So that was
a dead end. Probably a cover stories. However when we were Looking over the
2080 we saw some papers in the captains cabin if fact a giant stack of
papers. Some of which referred to a project SHAD. Standing orders about
something. Looking over the boat you could see that at some points a lot of
money had been spent on a refit. Also there was another builders plate for
the conversion into a research vessel By the Fulton Shipyard in 1964. The
thing that tipped us off was some information from The Transportation Museum
at Ft. Eustis. This was a Marine Vessel Population / Location file, from the
Army Mobility Equipment File Stating that the 5 tugs were assigned to
Deseret Test Ft. Douglas. The Dugway proving ground has a web site that
states its mission as Chemical and Biological weapons testing. I called an
acquaintance of mine that owns Fulton Shipyard and asked about the Vessels
He said atomic Testing I said chemical and biological he said yes. I was
also looking for the conversion Plans that were also done by Rosenblatt. He
said that the plans were classified and he did not have them. (How come you
chose to use Radianic over Rosenblatt for the repower project?) .
I did a search on Alta Vista for Shad & Deseret and came up with the Deseret
news and an Article by Lee Davidson this has some good FOI data in it. Also
He gives names of officers on the tugs I called couple of them they were
willing to talk about the characteristics of the LT under heavy sea
conditions. But not about the actual testing. Some of these sailors have
gotten various form of cancer over the years and they suspect
The chemicals used for decontamination may have caused the cancer. All of
which are still classified
With the exception of chlorine bleach we do know this was used extensively.
Another often-overlooked fact is that chlorine Bleach (sodium hyperchloride)
can be easily and cheaply manufactured from plain old seawater on board any
boat!
The decontamination system we observed on board the 2080 consisted of a
system very similar to a standard fire sprinkler system. The bronze pipeing
was sized to achieve maximum velocity to the common fire sprinkler heads
located all over the exterior of the boat. This was the washdown system Also
the crews wc had 2 showers one with a separate watertight door entrance from
the port main deck.
I wrote to the librarian at Dugway requesting the drawings for the extended
aft cabin. Never heard back from them. I am sure the log books from SHAD wou
ld make interesting reading.. I understand the need for secrecy on this
issue as chemical and biological weapons.

Cheers
Scott